The problem of "comment spam" has been solved

UPDATE: Captchas, as they are called, have only a limited impact on comment spam and create accessibility issues for those with eyesight problems and the blind.  The search for a solution continues.  If you have a blog or read blogs, think of ways to solve this issue and share it with the rest of us.  In the spirit of Cluetrain, the conversation must continue!

UPDATE 2: Copy of the post that triggered the search for a comment spam solution was added.  Doc's comment to that post and my response are also included.

A few weeks back I wrote a post in which I called Doc Searls and Dave Winer "hypocrites."  To my surprise, the next day I found a comment from Doc Searls that informed me of the problem bloggers are having with "comment spam."  I replied and gave my views on his comment and then proceeded to look for a way to solve the issue.  Once I understood exactly how comment spam worked I immediately thought of the way Yahoo has dealt with their web based mail registration and bots/spiders.  When you go sign up for a Yahoo account, you fill all of your information and then at the bottom of the form they ask you to type in a set of characters/letters that appear in a little image right next to the textbox.  If you don't type in the characters you see in the image or if you type them incorrectly the registration fails.  The reason this mechanism has worked well against spiders/bots is because up to this day, they can't read the content of an image.  Since the characters appear to be in an image instead of pure text, the bot can't figure it out. 

Earlier this week I read this post and noticed the same mechanism Yahoo uses but for comments on a blog that belongs to a large publishing firm.  Notice the little image next to the "Enter the code you see:" textbox.  Unless I'm missing something this hack/idea should solve the comment spam problem and should be implemented by all of the leading blogging systems (TypePad, Movable Type, Blogger and others).  If comment spam was the excuse for not having comments on a blog, fear no more. 

In my opinion the difference and value of a blog lies in the conversation that readers and authors have in the comment and trackback sections of their blogs.  It is this collective knowledge that CBS, NY Times, FOX and all these other "old media" companies can't generate due to the "one-way" nature of their broadcasts.

Doc if you are around and read this, please help spread the word.

Blogging without comments or trackbacks is hypocrisy!

Everyone makes mistakes once in a while, right? We are all human. Some times we make mistakes out of ignorance and at times out of just pure stupidity. Even the greatest minds get to say or do some really "dumb" things. Take Socrates as an example. On the subject of writing as a medium of communication, Socrates complained wholeheartedly about it. He felt that it forced one to follow an argument rather than participate in it, and he disliked both its alienation and its persistence. I can see the logic in that, but boy, can you imagine what the world would be like if we didn't have type of literature? At the same time, he has a point. Socrates was unsettled by the idea that a manuscript/book traveled without the author, with whom no argument was possible. Worse, he feared that the author could die and never be talked away from the position taken in the writing. Wow! What a concept. Thanks Alan!

Today I feel that there is a lot of  HYPOCRITE BLOGGERS out there. Yes, I'm calling a lot of bloggers out there hypocrites. Socrates most be rolling in his grave. I'm talking specially about those that are known to be founders of the "blogosphere." You know, guys like Dave Winer or even the "markets as conversations" advocates like Doc Searls. The guys whose name immediately pop up when people hear the world "blog." The guys that swear by the "open, raw and genuine voice" of blogging. Why? In my opinion, if you have a "blog" and you don't allow for a method for people to openly discuss (argue, bitch - whatever you want to call it) your content (like Dave Winer and Doc Searls among others), you have nothing more than just a "site." A lame, archaic, cowardly and narcissist way of "broadcasting" your thoughts to the rest of us in cyberspace. A mediocre attempt on what should be an open and simple CONVERSATION in the purest form of the word. The power of blogs is not in what the author writes initially, but in the dynamic shape that the content takes as it is openly discussed and commented on. How many times have you read a book and wished you could talk back to the author? Or that you had a way to share your feelings, thoughts or ideas that it had on you? The same applies to TV shows, radio, newspapers and magazines. The power of blogging is in the open and instantaneous dialog. A simple two-way asynchronous communication at its best.


Don't defecate on this new and genuine medium of communication. Engage in the exchange of ideas, no matter what they are and allow for comments and/or trackbacks in your blogs. This is what makes blogging different from anything else out there. Be brave, open up. Allow every reader to participate in a dialog.


Note: Obscenity and rudeness are expressions in communication and should not be used as an excuse to prevent the dialog of ideas.


Woooof!
Now that I got that off my chest, I hope you have a great day!

Doc's comment:

Thanks for bringing up comments and trackbacks as a conversational issue.

While I agree that comments and trackbacks are Good Things, I don't agree that they are all that separate blogs from mere "sites."

For what it's worth, my blog does allow comments. It doesn't have trackbacks because the software it uses doesn't support the practice (far as I know).

(I also confess that trackbacks have always been a bit confusing to me.)

There are plenty of blogs that have comments turned off because comment spam has become intolerable. I'm not sure that makes those bloggers "hypocrites."

Dave has his own reasons for using neither on his blog. Those reasons don't matter as much as the fact that RSS (which Dave fathered) provides a great way for everybody to find subjects to comment on, and facilitates blog-to-blog conversation without one blogger needing to write back in another blogger's comments section.

What I'd like to see, for bloggers who allow comments, is permalinks for each comment, which allows others to link directly to those comments. Very handy when there are a pile of comments to a post.

My response to Doc's comment:

Hi Doc,

First, I'll admit that never in my wildest dreams did I think that you were actually going to read my post, specially considering the small number of people that actually read my blog. I'm a great admirer of your work (Cluetrain Manifesto, Linux Journal and lately DIY IT) and honestly I'm just flattered to have your comment on my blog. I hope you didn't get offended.

Ok, so now that I got the ass kissing out of the way, let me get back to the topic.

In your comment you said:

"While I agree that comments and trackbacks are Good Things, I don't agree that they are all that separate blogs from mere "sites." "

I'm sorry Doc, but for the exception of RSS I don't see a difference. Regardless of the reasons one may have a blog, or the content in it, if it doesn't allow for comments or trackbacks; it is still a one-way form of communication. In all honesty, I would appreciate if you can enlighten me on the differences from a conversational point of view.

You said:

"For what it's worth, my blog does allow comments. It doesn't have trackbacks because the software it uses doesn't support the practice (far as I know)."

Before I wrote my post I looked everywhere in your site for a way to leave a comment. I couldn't find it. I clicked on the small icon next to each of your posts, but that didn't work either. It may be a usability problem with Manila.

As far as the trackback mechanism is concerned, I view it as the glue that keeps separate and unrelated blogs together. It is the main reason I left Google's free Blogger service (they don't support trackbacks) and the reason I'm now paying for TypePad. As you already know, trackbacks allow for me to write a comment on my blog about a post you wrote on yours. The beauty of the whole thing is that this comment I now wrote will automatically show up in your blog as if it was actually written there. It is just as effective as a comment written in your own blog, but without you having to implement the comment capability. Trackbacks give us a digital way to engage in dialog from the comfort of our own blogs. I don't anything else out there that can do the same thing.

"There are plenty of blogs that have comments turned off because comment spam has become intolerable. I'm not sure that makes those bloggers "hypocrites." "

I really don't believe that the majority of bloggers out there that have comments turned off are doing it because of comment spam. A good portion of them just don't want to hear it. Yes, comment spam is a problem, but not something we haven't seen before. The way I see it all comments should be sent as an email to the the blogger before getting posted on the blog. Hard to manually moderate, I admit, but worth the hassle. Actually, if you let your mail client deal with the comment spam as regular "email spam" it isn't really that hard. Take a look at Russell Beattie's blog and his comment mechanism. In any case, I believe that the dialog that comments allow is invaluable. We should put all our creativity in solving the issue and it shouldn't be the reason to stop comments.

Later you said:

"Dave has his own reasons for using neither on his blog. Those reasons don't matter as much as the fact that RSS (which Dave fathered) provides a great way for everybody to find subjects to comment on, and facilitates blog-to-blog conversation without one blogger needing to write back in another blogger's comments section."

Please explain to me how I can write a comment on my blog about something you wrote on yours while simultaneously notifying you that I've done so. From what I understand, I can discuss in my blog all day long topics you talk about in your blog, but what good is that if you don't get to know about it. How can we engage in a dialog if you don't even know I had something to say? I really want to know.


"What I'd like to see, for bloggers who allow comments, is permalinks for each comment, which allows others to link directly to those comments. Very handy when there are a pile of comments to a post."

I believe this has been done already. Check Russ' blog again to see what I mean.


Thanks for the comment.

Jose

 

Comments

[Anil]

Actually, those little text pictures (which we call "CAPTCHA") are susceptible to attack by comment spammers as well. However, a combination of tactics can manage comment spam for a lot of people. If you'd like to find out more about what can be done and what options are out there, you can read our Six Apart Guide to Comment Spam here:

http://www.sixapart.com/pronet/comment_spam.html

[Joel Goldstick]

The Captcha method is great unless you can't see. So it removes people with bad or no eyesight from the conversation. Maybe someone can figure out some audio method to do the same thing

[Jose]

Hi Anil,

Thanks for the Six Apart link. I looked into it and it seems that spammers can circumvent the captcha mechanism by using real people.

You can read about it here:
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/01/27/solving_and_creating.html

What has me a bit concerned is that while Six Apart has a number of methods to deal with comment spam, most of those options are only available for MovableType users. At least, that's the impression I got from reading their guide. I wonder what Six Apart is doing for their TypePad customers? As a paying customer, can I have Six Apart implement TypeKey on my TypePad blog? How about the other features? What about the rest of the bloggers out there that don't use MovableType or TypePad, should they be left out in the cold? Is Six Apart working with other blogging systems or companies to solve this issue?

Thanks.

[Jose]

Hi Joel,

Thank you for bringing up the accessibility issue with captchas. I really believe that there's a solution out there, but we are not looking hard enough. If you find out of a way to make captchas accessible, please let me know.

Thanks.

[BillSaysThis]

Jeremy Zawodny (http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/) has a good answer to this problem. He asks one of a set of questions (What is his first name, for instance) that any human could answer but no bot would be able to.